Tuesday, February 12, 2019

Women learning Torah

"Women and slaves are exempt from Torah study" Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:1

"A woman who learns Torah has reward" Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:13 (1:16 at link)

"Even though she has reward the Rabbis commanded that he shouldn't teach his daughter Torah; since most women's minds are not directed towards being educated, and they will redirect the Torah towards nonsense due to the poverty of their minds." Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:13 (1:16 at link)

This is very difficult, if she has reward why shouldn't a father teach her, and if she will use the Torah for nonsense why does she have reward?

"Someone who was not taught by his father must teach himself when he becomes aware; as it says: "And you should learn them and you should protect to do them". And similarly you find universally that study is placed before action, since study causes action but action does not lead to study" Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:3 (1:4 at link)

Since women have an obligation in action, it would seem that Torah study has central relevance to them. Would this obligate them to study (although not under the formal heading of Talmud Torah)?

"It is a Mitzva upon all of the wise in Israel to teach all students, as it says: "you should teach them (v'shinantam) to your children" (Devarim 6:7), the tradition teaches " 'Your children', these are your students" " Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:2

It seems like this obligation, incumbent upon 'the wise', applies to both male and female students. Note that the exclusion of women from Torah study comes from the verse which applies to biological sons "and you shall teach them (v'limadtem) to your sons to speak them" (Devarim 11:19) on which the sifrei comments "Your sons, and not your daughters". This distinction fits well with the Halacha seen earlier that only the father is commanded not to teach their daughter. Apparently every one capable is required to teach a girl or woman who has become a 'student'.

"And I say that one shouldn't stroll in the orchard until he has filled his belly with bread and meat. This 'bread' and 'meat' is to know the explanation of the forbidden and permitted, and similarly from other Mitzvot. And even though the Rabbis called these topics 'a small matter' - since they said: " 'a great matter' is the 'act of the chariot' (i.e. metaphysics) 'a small matter' these are the constructs of Abaye and Rava." - It is appropriate to study them first,  since they initially settle a persons mind and they are the great good which Hakadosh Baruch bestowed for settling this world in order to inherit the world to come; and all people are able to know them, great or small, man or woman, one whose understanding is wide or whose understanding is narrow." Hilchot Yesodei Hatorah 4:13 (4:21 at link)

Women are obligated in the love of God and knowledge is a necessary ingredient of that love, of which all women are fully capable (at least in the Davar Katan form which is the limit for most men and women). Yet again it seems that women have a need to study Torah.

Going back to the beginning, women are exempt from the Mitzvah of Talmud Torah (which is the combination of teaching and learning, i.e. being part of the formal transmission of Torah study through the generations). But she is not exempt from many important features of Torah study which were mentioned above. And even with regard to Mesora, women have a special role, see the Rav's eulogy for the Rebbetzin of Talne, where he describes the special Mesora of Torat Imecha. Furthermore it is obvious from real-world experience that women are capable of the most advanced forms of thought, an observation supported by the Halacha in Yesodei Hatorah.

If so, why is a father instructed to not teach his daughter? It seems that this is because a father is likely to pressure her in a way which is not best for her development, since a parent is often moved by their own psychological need for gaining honor vicariously through their children (I believe that I heard this point from Rabbi Chait). Therefore this is guidance only for a father, any one else may, and perhaps must, teach women (at least those who are interested).

This command to the father is based on the fact that 'most women's minds are not directed to learning', from modern experience this seems clearly to not be an intrinsic biological or psychological lack (there are clearly both biological and neurological/psychological differences between men and women but they don't seem relevant here). Therefore it seems to be expressing a social fact that women are not trained in thought and therefore if an individual father tries to break with that norm it is likely that to stem from his own needs. Today when girls start learning in school at a young age (and in many areas are more successful than boys) their minds are 'directed towards learning' from that very beginning and this concern doesn't apply. Therefore, perhaps, even a father may (and, since he wants the best for his daughter, should) teach his daughters.

General Notes:
1. When thinking about this topic we should take special caution since as human beings we often have an implicit bias against women. Chazal teach: "And the daughters of Tzlefchad approached - When the daughters of Tzefchad heard that the land would be divided to the tribes and not the women, they gathered to plan. They said: "God's mercy is not like man's mercy. Man has greater mercy on men than on women; but He who spoke and the world was, is not that way, rather his mercy is on everyone equally, men and women, as it says "God is good to all, and his mercy is on all of his creations."" (Sifri Pinchas) It seems that even the greatest human being, Moshe, was potentially subject to this bias, if not for the fact that his life was guided by imitating the merciful ways of God.

2. When quoting sources in the Mishneh Torah I am using the standard numbering of the halachot. In parentheses are the numbers used at the linked page. Unfortunately I don't know of an online edition which follows Rabbi Yochai Makbili's practice of keeping the original numbering while using paragraph breaks with subscripts to identify the authentic division. I would appreciate any practical suggestions people have.

12 comments:

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

Interesting post Yaakov, thanks so much for following in the footsteps of Nachshon and being first to post on this renewed virtual Beit Midrash!

There are many, many threads here, B"h.

I focus on the following:
"It is a Mitzva upon all of the wise in Israel to teach all
students, as it says: "you should teach them (v'shinantam) to your children"
(Devarim 6:7), the tradition teaches " 'Your children', these are your
students" "
Hilchot Talmud Torah 1:2

It seems like this obligation, incumbent upon 'the wise', applies to both male
and female students.

Insofar as Rambam's educational intent was to provide the first comprehensive curriculum to Davar Katan to all students, he would himself be a test case of your approach to Vishinantam.

Do you think the wording in the Hakdama aligns with your approach to v'shinantam:

מב עַד שֶׁיִּהְיוּ כָּל הַדִּינִין גְּלוּיִין לַקָּטָן וְלַגָּדוֹל בְּדִין כָּל מִצְוָה וּמִצְוָה, וּבְדִין כָּל הַדְּבָרִים שֶׁתִּקְּנוּ חֲכָמִים וּנְבִיאִים: כְּלָלוֹ שֶׁלַּדָּבָר, כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא יְהֶא אָדָם צָרִיךְ לְחִבּוּר אַחֵר בָּעוֹלָם בְּדִין מִדִּינֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל







Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

So that all the laws to be revealed to both those of lesser stature and those of greater stature, regarding the law of each and every mitzvah, and the laws of all the practices that were ordained by the Sages and the Prophets.

To summarize: [The intent of this work is] that a person will not need another text at all with regard to any law in the legal system of Israel.

Unknown said...

Thanks so much for posting this Yaakov...a very thoughtful analysis to an issue that was always troubling to me.

Unknown said...

Unknows is Dan

Yaakov said...

Rabbi,
I agree with the connection with the introduction, but I am not sure what you are getting at exactly. Are you suggesting that the Halacha is only addressing Ramabam-like Chachamim who create a mesora paradigm for the entire Am? I had understood the Rambam to be the broadest fulfillment of 'all students' but that 'kol hatalmidim' of the halacha indicates any students who present themselves (and maybe to also seek them out?) but not necessarily all students in the world. This would keep it in a hierarchy with the father and grandfather as well as keeping it a similar structure as the relationship of the Navi to the 'Bnei haneviim'.
I think that you pointing out that the Rambam set up the Mishneh Torah as an application of this halacha and that he is applying it at a global level, and completely agree with that. But is their something deeper behind your question.
Obviously the Rambam's introduction fits well with his idea that Talmud brings about action, and that principle is a central pillar of his method of teaching all students.

Dan
Glad you enjoyed, looking forward to pick up learning with you after many years.

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

Just to clarify:

"So that all the laws to be revealed to both those of lesser stature and those of greater stature, regarding the law of each and every mitzvah, and the laws of all the practices that were ordained by the Sages and the Prophets". To summarize: [The intent of this work is] that a person will not need another text at all with regard to any law in the legal system of Israel.

I found this above language interesting as a way of further analyzing "Vishinantam" vs "Viahavta".

The specified audience in the intro is characterized "of lesser stature and those of greater stature".

The phrase "of lesser stature and those of greater stature" is slightly ambiguous in comparison to the quote from Yesodei haTorah (4:21) where there is specific reference to female students.

It is appropriate to study them first, since they initially settle a persons mind and they are the great good which Hakadosh Baruch bestowed for settling this world in order to inherit the world to come; and all people are able to know them, great or small, man or woman, one whose understanding is wide or whose understanding is narrow." Hilchot Yesodei Hatorah 4:13

Is this discrepancy meant to convey that it is only in the theoretical sense of davar katan of Yesodei hatorah that Female students are included? IE that female students are not only excluded from ulimadtem but are excluded from vishinantam as well.

If this is true, then Viahavta would be a distinct obligating factor in teaching torah, outside of Talmud Torah altogether. IE, it would be an academic study illustrating Chochmas Hashem in a given area, human activity.

Or is the Rambam in the hakdama meaning to refer to all students including female ones and is simply using "of lesser stature and those of greater stature" as a shorthand for everyone?


Yaakov said...

Would you make a similar 'diyuk' and ask whether "one whose understanding is narrow" is excluded from 'vshinantam' since he is not mentioned in the introduction? Or would you assume that he is included in "those of lesser stature and those of greater stature" with yesodei hatorah using shorthand?

Separately, what makes you say that 'viahavta' is only an academic study?

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

Well said Yaakov,I was wondering about that very point insofar as the diyyuk.

Interestingly, the second question you asked about Viahavta ties into my further thinking which I will try to put together tomorrow.

Shavus Tov!

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

Explanatory note: I am not sure about the proper reading of Rambam- so I am "talking it out".

The comment format has some limitations to "talking out" a reading, an overly long comment is visually very confusing.

To avoid that I will break up my thought into a few comments. Hopefully I will be able to get those out today.

Feel free to comment back at any stage along the way.

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said...

Yaakov, you have noted a contradiction in Rambam with regard to Talmud Torah.

On the one hand Rambam notes that , though not obligated in learning Torah, women are fully capable of learning and get reward for studying Torah.
Talmud Torah 1: 13:
A woman who studies Torah will receive reward. However, that reward will not be [as great] as a man's, since she was not commanded [in this mitzvah].
Yesodei haTorah 4:21 :
I maintain that it is not proper for a person to stroll in the Pardes unless he has filled his belly with bread and meat. "Bread and meat" refer to the knowledge of what is permitted and what is forbidden, and similar matters concerning other mitzvot. Even though the Sages referred to these as "a small matter" - for our Sages said: "'A great matter,’ this refers to Ma'aseh Merkavah. `A small matter,’ this refers to the debates of Abbaye and Ravva" - nevertheless, it is fitting for them to be given precedence, because they settle a person's mind.
Also, they are the great good which the Holy One, blessed be He, has granted, [to allow for] stable [living] within this world and the acquisition of the life of the world to come. They can be known in their totality by the great and the small, man or woman, whether [granted] expansive knowledge or limited knowledge.

On the other hand Rambam explicitly forbids fathers to teach female students claiming they are not capable of Torah study
Talmud Torah 1: 13
…”Even though she will receive a reward, the Sages commanded that a person should not teach his daughter Torah, because most women cannot concentrate their attention on study, and thus transform the words of Torah into idle matters because of their lack of understanding”.

These two contradictory statements you seek to resolve by a third source- Talmud Torah 1:2:
“Just as a person is obligated to teach his son, so, too, is he obligated to teach his grandson, as [Deuteronomy 4:9] commands: "And you shall teach them to your sons and your grandsons."
[Furthermore, this charge is not confined] to one's children and grandchildren alone. Rather, it is a mitzvah for each and every wise man to teach all students, even though they are not his children, as [Deuteronomy 6:7] states: "And you shall teach them to your sons..."

It is in this broader obligation to the wise to teach all students, that you propose we can harmonize all sources with regard to the proper relation of female students to studying Torah.

IE women are capable students and get reward if they study properly as in the case of being taught by the wise of Israel, they are not capable students and do not get reward if they study improperly , as in the case of being taught by their fathers.

It is an interesting approach and I think it deserves much discussion.

The approach hinges on one critical issue:
Why does Rambam leave such an important point as the capability of women students to learn in Yesodei haTorah in the context of discussion of Ahavas Hashem?

Why does Rambam NOT explicitly clarify his approach to women in the actual context of Hilchot Talmud Torah itself?

This discussion will continue in the next comment. Unless you or anyone else has a question or objection to what has been said?

Yaakov said...

I don't think I was clear since your summary seems very far from my attempt at explanation.
Most primarily, my conviction that women are able to learn is based on observation of the world and not textual dialectics.

In terms of the Rambam, I think that halacha 13 points to the essential issue on its own, namely that women receive reward (with everything that entails) The problem is on the prohibition of the father, therefore it internally makes sense to read that line in the most restricted sense as only referring to the father. (Perhaps the reason for that prohibition is because it will lead to pressuring her inappropriately, perhaps there is another reason.)

I am further suggesting that in the very same halacha we should understand 'Ain daata Mechuvenet lilmod" (her mind is not directed to study) as a social fact not an intrinsic one. (In contradistinction to the translation you are using "most women cannot concentrate their attention on study" which I don't think is precise)

I am bringing the source about the wise of Israel to suggest a further chiddush (which I am unsure of) which is that women are formally included in the mitzvah of talmud torah as students of the wise (i.e. they are not obligated but the wise are obligated to teach them).

I can agree with your question if you frame it more broadly. Why does the Rambam leave such an important point as to the nature of 'havayot diabaye verava' and their scope to yesodei hatorah instead of explaining it in talmud torah? (Although, is it a question why an important point is 'left' for yesodei hatorah? Isn't that primary and what we would expect? Perhaps we should frame our question differently?) The discussion of women is a sidepoint of that halacha.

As I mentioned at the beginning of the comment, while (as usual) Yesodei hatorah sets up the framework for thought, and, of course, understanding yesodei hatorah better will help us understand all of talmud torah more fundamentally, including this issue. I think halacha 13 on its own takes us most of the way in understanding that women can and should learn. "She has reward"!