Monday, November 17, 2008

Blogger Yaakov said...
Rabbi,
Does todays discussion contradict what we mentioned last time about the Mitzvah of the 4 Minim? We mentioned that the reason there is a particular action of the Mitzvah is because the farmer has an attraction towards making a thanksgiving. The torah takes that joy and redirects it through the Mitzvah system, particularly Mitzvas Lulav. The Torah could not just tell us that our happiness must be tied to the Shem Hashem since that would not be real to our experience. If so the lack of being farmers, even with a great education system will not make the Mitzvah instruments useful for human development since when Sukkos comes we aren't in the state of happiness which leads us to desire a thanksgiving holiday.
Thanks!
~Yaakov

Yaakov said...

Aren't Mitzvot different then stories in that Mitzvot are meant to be experiences in the personal as opposed to relating to experiences of others. We do not say "Chayav adam liros es atzmo k'ilu hu beatzmo natal lulav" Therefore while it is true that Mitzvot are essentially particular expressions of Devarim they also exist as specific instruments which guide one to the fundamentals 'Ledoros'.

November 15, 2008 6:55 PM

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Blogger Yaakov said...

This morning it sounded like you were just repeating the same point from last time, let me try phrasing my question a different way.

For us non-farmers is there a difference between talmud torah of the mitzvah culminating in actually performing the mitzvah vs. only being involved in the talmud torah?

November 16, 2008 6:59 PM


Yakov,

You ask if there a difference, in performing the Mitzva of Lulav, rather than only being involved in Talmud Torah about Lulav. Your question is based upon a proper undestanding of the challenge in relating to Shem Hashem. One must see the principles as embedded in concrete examples that are real to me in experience, not just in abstract.
the reason there is a particular action of the Mitzvah is because the farmer has an attraction towards making a thanksgiving. The torah takes that joy and redirects it through the Mitzvah system, particularly Mitzvas Lulav. The Torah could not just tell us that our happiness must be tied to the Shem Hashem since that would not be real to our experience.
You further distinguish beween Talmud Torah and actual doing of the Mitzva. In Talmud Torah you accept that there could be a use of others experience to make a principal real if not personal to me. In the act of Mitzva though you find this difficult. What is there to differentiate talmud torah, from doing the mitzva if not the actual reflection upon myself in time and space particulary experiencing the mitzva as an experimental phenomenon? What is this phenomenon we should be reflecting upon as we do as opposed to theorize about Lulav. Is it not the phenomenon of psychological distortion of seeing a self desiring a thanksgiving being guided to see birkas hashem that is being remedied by Lulav?
If so the lack of being farmers, even with a great education system will not make the Mitzvah instruments useful for human development since when Sukkos comes we aren't in the state of happiness which leads us to desire a thanksgiving holiday
The key here lies in understanding the nature of the knowledge to be gotten from reflection upon the principles as embedded in experience. Let us consider Lulav. The davar that is involved here is "tzedaka" - the supply of tov to man. In this the principle is the same as Beracha. Specifically Lulav deals with the tov as it is seen in the case of harvest in Eretz Yisrael. This is because we need to learn to see the principle of tov, not in abstract alone, but as it actually appears to us in the phenomenon of our environment. Harvestime is a very distinct phenomenon, and as such needs its own derech of education. This phenomenon of tov as it appears to us in our environment has two expressions however.

Talmud torah seeks real experience through torah shebichtav, it is real about anyman, or at least anyman as I know them. In talmud torah I see what Lulav is as an exploration of how the davar of tov is seen in the special case of harvest, as it applies to man in all times ideal and not through a sort of "case study" of the simcha of a farmer in his harvest. This "case study" should be real, but not necessarily personal. I see the universal mitzva, understand its applications in all times, its full application in times of geula and its limitation in time of galut. This is still not seeing the principle in the world of my own life though.

It is only in doing the mitzva that I reflect upon the principle of tzedaka at harvestime, not as it applies in a "case study" that is real to me but in seeing the principle in the actual real world I myself occupy- a true self application. Though I may even explore the phenomenon of difficulty of everyman doing Lulav in a time of galut, there is still another experience. It is in the self application that I see only in the reality of myself doing the mitzva as part of preserving a system of appreciating the tov of harvestime in my world of October 2008 USA, so remote from its true place in agricultural Israel. The exploration of how the davar of tov of harvestime applies to me in my particular time, in whatever way it does apply,that is the distinct developmental experience of doing of mitzva of lulav.



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2 comments:

Yehuda said...

I think that it should be stated that our economy is set up to hide, as much as possible, the true sources of production. Even the way we purchase our 4 minim is a reflection of this - prepackaged, vacuum sealed, nearly flawless minim ready to be picked up even hours before the chag begins. Not long ago, our connection to Mr. Farmer and his farm would have been obvious to anyone.

Doing the mitzva and feeling a sense of meaninglessness can be far more powerful than being confounded by difficult halakhot. The experience with the mitzva should spur one on to more Talmud Torah reflections (this obviously produces a recursive cycle).

In the case of 4 minim we should be shocked by how disconnected we feel from the vegetation we hold in hand. This should lead to investigation. Think of the great journalists like Upton Sinclair and Michael Pollan - they sought out the sources of production and what they found was quite shocking.

A simpler example, for me, is that of mezuza. I wrote about my experience with mitzvat mezuza and how that helped me make a Talmud Torah breakthrough.
Link to post on mezuza

Anonymous said...

Are you saying that in Talmud Torah, we reflect on the davar as embodied in the particular exemplar case mentioned in Torah Shebichsav, whereas in the doing of a mitzvah, we reflect on the ramifications and applications of this davar to my particular circumstances?
If so, what, if anything, does the act of taking or shaking a lulav have to do with the application of the davar of tov during harvest time to my particular circumstances? Is there something specific about the act of taking a lulav that has a connection to this application to my life of this principle of tov during harvest time , or is it (for us today) an almost arbitrary reminder that I should stop and think about applications of the davar the action represents to my life? It seems one would have to go through the extra step today of saying to oneself, “Just as Hashem is the source of produce, and it is truly He who is great- not the farmer who cultivates and harvests the field, so to Hashem is the source of my parnasa- the creator of all of the matter and principles of motion that result in success in my work. I will therefore do an act that demonstrates that Hashem’s law is more real than my desires or “accomplishments”. The Israeli farmer would need to go through the same process. But, he could just skip the step of connecting taking produce to his experience. Taking a lulav more immediately goes against his animal sense of tov, reminding him that there is an alternate frame. For us, it immediately just seems bizarre, and once we reflect on what it represents, we can sense how this goes against our animal sense of tov and shift to the alternate frame.