צלם#5 Yaakovs questions

Yaakov's comments are long so I will deal with these in a new post.

1. isn't the seder muskal going to be a seder havayah also? since these "intellects" are also "brought into existence"

Havaya is generation an existence relevant to understanding species of individuals interacting in the ecosystem of matter in a motion measured in time. This is relevant to generation after generation of identical particulars as Shlomo Ha-Melech describes nicely at the beginning of Koheles. A generation comes exists dies degenerates a new generation begins. This is not relevant to entities outside of chomer/matter.

2. Based on what you said earlier (in the first seder)about the active intellect causing Tzurah bichomer, isn't the second seder (havayat nimtzaim bi-chomer) going to emerge as a result of the first?

Yes exactly.

3. Why does the Seder Havayah move from lowest to highest while seder muskal go from highesst to lowest?

Havaya is an idea that exists as expressed in generations of individuals in a material medium. As such it follows the order of evolution in time. Life (Vegetable,animal Human) exists in time after chemical compounds that could be specifically ordered in a double helix of DNA. In a sense then this framework is still evolving and will do so until its true end product- man- actually knows himself and functions as a species to educate generation after generation of havaya in mankind's children.

4. What does the term "hylic Tzurah" mean?
Hylic is the potential of material to combine or be formed through havaya into the individuals of species that express an idea or law. Chemicals combine to form the DNA life pattern.

5. How is the human mind "hylic tzurah " if it partakes of "Shamayim""
Mind starts as Ralbag says "bereft of ideas". It does not actually know, it potentially knows. Newton then has a mind that is hylic until it gains the sensory experience of seeing an apple, then chooses to seek the cause of motion through it rather than choose to eat or throw it at someone. The potential to know is realized if the soul chooses to focus on the end product of knowledge in this case gravity.However sensory experience is in essence a material phenomenon shared with animals as Ralbag emphasizes. Even the person who chooses to eat the apple or throw it knows it practically as food or a missile. "Food" and "missile are abstractions,but one merely useful in a practical way and therefore material and animal. This ceases to be the case when we seek ideas that are not useful in conquest-only beautiful as theoretical knowledge useful in itself. As the mind comes to actually know , we discern such theoretical ideas in the laws of material things and the Butterfly is unleashed from the cocoon. A theoretical ohev of the good of ideas is born and a practical man whose good is money or power ceases to exist. Einstein emerges and Edison is no more. Avraham is born and Noach the inventor of the plow ceases to exist. Obviously this involves valuing theoretical pleasure over animal pleasure as I told Michael in Tzelem 3 comments


6. In the "Seder Havayah" what is more primary about the "Yesodot"? Aren't they also going to be law expressed in matter? (Are these Yesodot the particles of quantum physics or something more abstract?) If the yesod didn't exist a combination or structure could not exist. No H2O without H and O. Works all the way up to the most complex compound of brain.

7. Why is political knowledge part of Yishuv Hadaat, isn't the theory of politics merely an aspect of psychology? Why isn't knowledge of the "Kol Hanimtzaim" part of Yishuv Daat?
Theoretical knowledge is useful in itself. Practical is useful for action. All these subjects can therefore be both. In the Mishne Torah they are practical, in Moreh theoretical.

8. "This attainment is difficult due to matter, dimayon and mitaveh which seek to limit man's decisions and crafts to an animal society."
are matter, dimayon and mitaveh three different things? what exactly are they and how do they prevent the attainment of knowledge? also isn't dimayon used in attaining knowledge?
Matter is Hylic potential which in ultimate evolution is Man. Man has the power to interact with his environment in two ways. 1) Be attracted to eat apples in accord with the imaginations picturing of a delicious red apple that attracts the animal power of desire or 2) seek causal knowledge seeing apple as a good case of body as indicated by the guidance of an intuition informed by the active intellect to satisfy the superior pleasure of knowledge . Notice the header explaining the purpose of this website.